1
00:00:13,367 --> 00:00:16,200
The residents of this area
understandably are edgy.

2
00:00:16,233 --> 00:00:19,266
They're asking themselves,
is the killer still around
these parts?

3
00:00:20,433 --> 00:00:22,233
It was just six months ago
that a human head

4
00:00:22,266 --> 00:00:24,100
was found in the hills
not too far from here...

5
00:00:25,734 --> 00:00:28,567
and the details of that murder
still are a mystery.

6
00:00:34,066 --> 00:00:38,467
[men speaking]

7
00:00:56,333 --> 00:01:00,133
[Monty]
My dad interviewed Kemper
over several months.

8
00:01:00,166 --> 00:01:04,100
Each time he went in,
they would develop a little
bit more of a relationship.

9
00:01:05,767 --> 00:01:08,634
And at the time,
they didn't really have
a category

10
00:01:08,667 --> 00:01:10,734
for the type of killer
that Ed Kemper was.

11
00:01:13,533 --> 00:01:16,767
He really wanted to get
into the mind of the killer

12
00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,700
and figure out
what were the causal factors

13
00:01:19,734 --> 00:01:25,000
in making him go
from a normal human being
to a sociopathic killer.

14
00:01:28,066 --> 00:01:31,567
[reporter] Local people don't
think Santa Cruz is the murder
capital of the world

15
00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,834
but there is concern,
short of alarm, that a killer
may still be at large.

16
00:01:57,567 --> 00:02:01,500
[Emerson]
Gruesome details, skull found
in a remote Loma Prieta.

17
00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,567
So these are newspapers
from the time
when it happened.

18
00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,533
This is my local history,
this is Santa Cruz's history,

19
00:02:11,567 --> 00:02:13,467
these murders changed
Santa Cruz.

20
00:02:16,834 --> 00:02:20,033
It impacted so many people
in the community

21
00:02:20,066 --> 00:02:23,533
and it was something
that we talked about a lot
in our family.

22
00:02:25,567 --> 00:02:29,634
Ed Kemper,
he was my boogeyman,
he was our family's boogeyman.

23
00:02:33,266 --> 00:02:38,233
There are so many rumors
about Kemper and what he did,
what he didn't do.

24
00:02:38,266 --> 00:02:40,634
So many outrageous stories.

25
00:02:43,667 --> 00:02:47,800
It's interesting to me to get
to the bottom and try to see
where the truth lies.

26
00:03:04,333 --> 00:03:06,133
[man]
Okay, fellas, move on in.

27
00:03:10,333 --> 00:03:12,967
After Kemper murdered
his grandparents,

28
00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:17,867
he was sent to Atascadero,
which is a, basically
a mental hospital for adults.

29
00:03:17,900 --> 00:03:19,800
[man] Okay, fellas, be seated.

30
00:03:21,700 --> 00:03:23,166
[Emerson]
So here's a 15-year-old boy,

31
00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,667
massive,
but he's still 15 years old,

32
00:03:26,700 --> 00:03:29,367
in this facility
with other adults.

33
00:03:33,533 --> 00:03:36,934
There were 1,600 inmates,
24 of them were murderers

34
00:03:36,967 --> 00:03:39,367
and 800 of them
were sex offenders.

35
00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:49,266
[man 1 speaking]

36
00:03:51,867 --> 00:03:54,000
During your teenage
formative years,

37
00:03:54,033 --> 00:03:56,266
this is the company
that he grew up with.

38
00:03:57,900 --> 00:04:02,300
And I believe it was the other
inmates that taught him...

39
00:04:02,333 --> 00:04:04,266
if you're gonna rape someone,
you need to kill them,

40
00:04:04,300 --> 00:04:07,000
you need to get rid
of the evidence,
you can't leave anyone alive.

41
00:04:11,500 --> 00:04:13,533
They put him
through a battery of tests

42
00:04:13,567 --> 00:04:18,800
and gave him this label
of sociopathic disorder,
anti-social...

43
00:04:19,967 --> 00:04:22,700
and that he was
a passive-aggressive type
of person.

44
00:04:24,433 --> 00:04:29,367
Kemper had a facade
of being polite
and cooperative

45
00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:33,734
because that had worked
for him in many ways.

46
00:04:33,767 --> 00:04:39,500
He would pretend to be normal,
pleasing, you know,
good manners.

47
00:04:41,634 --> 00:04:46,467
At the same time,
having these aggressive,
nasty fantasies

48
00:04:46,500 --> 00:04:47,834
about killing people.

49
00:04:54,533 --> 00:05:00,367
[man 1 speaking]

50
00:05:21,533 --> 00:05:25,567
Because his IQ score came up
in the superior range,

51
00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,000
the psychiatrist thought
that maybe it would be good

52
00:05:28,033 --> 00:05:31,467
to give him more
responsibility.

53
00:05:31,500 --> 00:05:35,967
And so, when he wants
to help them handle
the psychological tests

54
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,200
that seems like a good idea
to them.

55
00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:46,967
[man 1 speaking]

56
00:05:57,133 --> 00:06:00,533
Kemper's genius
was the manipulation

57
00:06:00,567 --> 00:06:03,367
of getting the psychiatrists
and psychologists

58
00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:07,734
to actually allow him to see
the contents of the test,

59
00:06:07,767 --> 00:06:12,800
so he could memorize them
in order to get passable
scores on these tests

60
00:06:12,834 --> 00:06:14,834
and be able to get out.

61
00:06:18,634 --> 00:06:25,100
[man 1 speaking]

62
00:06:32,233 --> 00:06:35,433
The sealing of the records
meaning they're still there

63
00:06:35,467 --> 00:06:38,100
but nobody gets access
to them.

64
00:06:38,133 --> 00:06:44,767
Future employers would not be
able to find out if he had,
in fact, a juvenile record.

65
00:06:48,066 --> 00:06:51,734
[Emerson]
Edmund Kemper was released
from Atascadero in 1969.

66
00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:55,333
They felt like he was cured,

67
00:06:55,367 --> 00:06:58,066
they felt like he was gonna be
an upstanding citizen
the rest of his life.

68
00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,800
[narrator] The grizzly story
began in this cove,

69
00:07:13,834 --> 00:07:16,600
the upper part
of a girl's torso washed up
on this beach

70
00:07:16,634 --> 00:07:19,567
two miles north
of the Santa Cruz pier...

71
00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:21,300
then a hand was found
two days later

72
00:07:21,333 --> 00:07:25,066
by a surfer who was
in the water near Capitola,
seven miles to the southeast.

73
00:07:32,166 --> 00:07:34,867
[Mickey] A highway patrol
officer found body parts
over the cliff,

74
00:07:34,900 --> 00:07:39,266
over down by Carmel,
which is about 20-25 miles
across the bay.

75
00:07:41,867 --> 00:07:47,100
About seven days later,
a torso washed up here
on the city of Santa Cruz.

76
00:07:49,700 --> 00:07:53,734
Subsequently, the torso
and the other body parts
were matched together

77
00:07:53,767 --> 00:07:56,600
with x-rays, they did
fingerprints and everything,

78
00:07:56,634 --> 00:07:59,367
and determined
that it was Cynthia Schall

79
00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,233
who was reported missing here
in Santa Cruz.

80
00:08:09,100 --> 00:08:13,567
[men speaking]

81
00:08:51,934 --> 00:08:56,500
I think this is one
of my favorite pictures
of Forrest and Cynthia.

82
00:08:56,533 --> 00:09:01,834
She just has the sweetest face
and the sweetest disposition
and it's just adorable.

83
00:09:04,467 --> 00:09:05,600
Cynthia was 18,

84
00:09:05,634 --> 00:09:09,533
she was going
to Cabrillo College
in Santa Cruz...

85
00:09:09,567 --> 00:09:14,533
and she lived with a family
and took care of the kids
in her off-school hours.

86
00:09:16,266 --> 00:09:19,500
She was very much
looking forward
to getting a car

87
00:09:19,533 --> 00:09:23,700
that was a point of contention
with her mother, my mother.

88
00:09:23,734 --> 00:09:26,700
She didn't have a car
and that's why she ended up
hitchhiking.

89
00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:35,000
My mother called me
and she said that Cynthia
is missing.

90
00:09:37,333 --> 00:09:40,567
The parents that Cynthia
was taking care
of the children,

91
00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,934
let my mom know
that she hasn't been home
in three days.

92
00:09:46,300 --> 00:09:50,667
When Cynthia disappeared
and we heard nothing,

93
00:09:50,700 --> 00:09:53,266
I didn't wanna jump
to conclusions

94
00:09:53,300 --> 00:09:57,667
but I felt something
was very, very wrong.

95
00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:06,400
[man 1 speaking]

96
00:10:36,567 --> 00:10:41,934
[Forrest]
I got the news on the TV
that she had been murdered.

97
00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:47,533
The whole family
was just devastated.

98
00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,266
We all came together
to be with my mother

99
00:10:54,300 --> 00:10:58,266
and we had a service
for Cynthia.

100
00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:06,266
There's a nice picture
of Candy and Cynthia.

101
00:11:06,300 --> 00:11:10,100
Candace was my other sister,
she was never the same.

102
00:11:10,133 --> 00:11:16,667
She became a drug addict
and she died
when she was about 33.

103
00:11:21,133 --> 00:11:25,033
So it basically destroyed
our family.

104
00:11:26,133 --> 00:11:27,700
I lost a best friend.

105
00:11:29,467 --> 00:11:31,400
And I still miss her today.

106
00:11:35,333 --> 00:11:37,033
People are definitely
uptight,

107
00:11:37,066 --> 00:11:40,500
they don't know exactly
what we have running loose
around here

108
00:11:40,533 --> 00:11:42,100
and they're very concerned.

109
00:11:42,133 --> 00:11:44,634
[reporter] Why are all these
murders here?

110
00:11:44,667 --> 00:11:47,867
Well, one reason
is that we have
a homicidal maniac

111
00:11:47,900 --> 00:11:49,533
apparently who's been
running around.

112
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:53,900
[Tom] I would go visit
the Santa Cruz Police

113
00:11:53,934 --> 00:11:57,867
and Santa Cruz Sheriff's
Department Detectives
on a daily basis, saying,

114
00:11:57,900 --> 00:12:00,233
"What the hell
is going on here?"

115
00:12:00,266 --> 00:12:04,200
And the police were saying,
"We just don't know,
we just don't have any clues."

116
00:12:06,467 --> 00:12:08,433
At the time Santa Cruz
was so small,

117
00:12:08,467 --> 00:12:10,834
there was a very limited
police department.

118
00:12:10,867 --> 00:12:13,166
Most of the cops
were local kids,

119
00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:17,800
who had grown up
and they hadn't had training
in major investigations.

120
00:12:21,867 --> 00:12:27,300
[Terry] There was a lot
of discussion about why these
bodies have been dismembered.

121
00:12:27,333 --> 00:12:30,033
Is it somebody that knows
how to dismember?

122
00:12:30,066 --> 00:12:36,467
Could it be somebody
that was at one time
a butcher, a doctor,

123
00:12:36,500 --> 00:12:37,867
or somebody like that?

124
00:12:39,634 --> 00:12:44,133
So our discussions now
about the totality
of these murder cases

125
00:12:44,166 --> 00:12:49,133
really starts to focus
on somebody
that is very smart.

126
00:12:53,634 --> 00:13:00,467
This does not now seem to us
to be some outraged
monster-killer

127
00:13:00,500 --> 00:13:03,467
randomly doing things
on the spur of the moment.

128
00:13:06,567 --> 00:13:11,567
This is somebody
that is thinking
about what they are doing.

129
00:13:17,734 --> 00:13:20,266
[Emerson] He was getting
better as a killer...

130
00:13:21,967 --> 00:13:23,934
he had what he called
his murder car,

131
00:13:23,967 --> 00:13:26,467
he had his murder clothes
that were dark,

132
00:13:26,500 --> 00:13:29,400
if they got stained
with blood, people wouldn't be
able to see.

133
00:13:29,433 --> 00:13:31,367
He had his car
with the handle latch

134
00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:32,834
that he could reach across,

135
00:13:32,867 --> 00:13:34,700
drop a little chap stick
in the door,

136
00:13:34,734 --> 00:13:38,266
so they couldn't open it again
from the inside.

137
00:13:38,300 --> 00:13:41,734
He knew how to commit crimes
that were very hard to detect.

138
00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,767
It's the age-old issue
of across districts,

139
00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,300
across counties, across
law enforcement agencies

140
00:13:51,333 --> 00:13:53,400
and Kemper was smart,
he knew that.

141
00:13:53,433 --> 00:13:55,266
He knew he was gonna pick up
over here,

142
00:13:55,300 --> 00:13:58,266
he was gonna kill over here,
he was gonna dump over here.

143
00:13:58,300 --> 00:14:02,500
He was gonna massacre
these bodies
beyond recognition,

144
00:14:02,533 --> 00:14:05,300
try to make identification
impossible.

145
00:14:08,033 --> 00:14:10,667
I think that's one
of the reasons a lot of people
in law enforcement

146
00:14:10,700 --> 00:14:12,166
felt like he was a genius.

147
00:14:29,066 --> 00:14:32,867
[indistinct chatter]

148
00:14:32,900 --> 00:14:37,467
[man 1 speaking]

149
00:14:40,567 --> 00:14:42,934
At Atascadero, they said,

150
00:14:42,967 --> 00:14:45,400
"When he is released,
he should not be released

151
00:14:45,433 --> 00:14:47,667
into the custody
of his mother."

152
00:14:50,433 --> 00:14:53,400
Because his mother
is a precipitating factor
for a lot of his anger.

153
00:14:56,100 --> 00:15:00,066
But in their infinite wisdom,
the California Youth Authority

154
00:15:00,100 --> 00:15:02,500
released Kemper
into the custody
of his mother.

155
00:15:04,934 --> 00:15:08,967
[man 1 speaking]

156
00:15:22,233 --> 00:15:23,900
My name is Jim Connor.

157
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:32,767
This is me, 70s,
and you see
how beautiful I am.

158
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,767
Before I went to work
for the police department,

159
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,533
I worked at a local tire shop

160
00:15:40,567 --> 00:15:46,266
and I would take tires
to small businesses
around Santa Cruz...

161
00:15:46,300 --> 00:15:51,433
and one of those businesses
was this gas station
where Ed worked.

162
00:15:53,533 --> 00:15:58,033
My first impression of him,
when I first met him, is that,

163
00:15:58,066 --> 00:16:00,800
"Oh, my God,
this guy's a giant."

164
00:16:00,834 --> 00:16:05,500
You know,
he had a great personality,
easy to talk to.

165
00:16:05,533 --> 00:16:08,233
He's just kind of
a guy's kind of guy.

166
00:16:11,867 --> 00:16:17,867
As far back as I can remember,
I always had a desire
to be a cop.

167
00:16:17,900 --> 00:16:20,433
[siren wailing]

168
00:16:20,467 --> 00:16:25,100
And I became a full-fledged
police officer in 1970.

169
00:16:28,634 --> 00:16:31,700
One of the first things I did
is I took my police car

170
00:16:31,734 --> 00:16:36,233
and I drove down to show
myself off to Ed.

171
00:16:36,266 --> 00:16:39,900
He came out
and I remember
just being so proud.

172
00:16:41,500 --> 00:16:44,767
I talked to him a lot
about being a police officer

173
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,166
and, "you're a big guy,
you're gonna make
a great cop."

174
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:54,066
And he would say,
"No, you know,
they wouldn't take me."

175
00:16:54,100 --> 00:16:56,800
And he had his reasons
for saying that.

176
00:16:56,834 --> 00:16:59,333
I didn't have a clue
what he was talking about.

177
00:16:59,367 --> 00:17:03,667
I just figured
that it wasn't his cup of tea,
so to speak.

178
00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:12,266
[men speaking]

179
00:17:52,300 --> 00:17:53,900
[reporter] This spot
is just a stone's throw

180
00:17:53,934 --> 00:17:57,066
from the Santa Cruz campus
of the University
of California.

181
00:17:57,100 --> 00:17:59,433
It's not far from here
that just a week ago today,

182
00:17:59,467 --> 00:18:02,233
four more bodies
were discovered
in a connected series

183
00:18:02,266 --> 00:18:04,500
of unsolved murders
in this area.

184
00:18:11,767 --> 00:18:15,867
By January of '73,
we had about
13 different homicides

185
00:18:15,900 --> 00:18:19,300
that we were investigating,
which is a huge number
for Santa Cruz area.

186
00:18:22,700 --> 00:18:25,033
Most of our homicides
were gunshots...

187
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,300
people in the counter-culture
lifestyle,

188
00:18:30,333 --> 00:18:32,967
that sort of thing,
some hitchhikers.

189
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:35,433
It was just going crazy.

190
00:18:38,500 --> 00:18:44,767
[Terry] We were reeling
under the strain
of just the amount of crime.

191
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:51,533
A woman and her two young sons
were found murdered
in their tiny cabin,

192
00:18:51,567 --> 00:18:55,300
and if it can get
any more bizarre, it does.

193
00:18:56,133 --> 00:18:57,634
The killing
of a catholic priest,

194
00:18:57,667 --> 00:19:01,533
found in a confessional
in his church,
stabbed to death.

195
00:19:05,100 --> 00:19:09,433
The volume of the homicides,
it is very overwhelming

196
00:19:09,467 --> 00:19:12,567
but you look at each one
and you try
to piece them together,

197
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,800
are these cases related?

198
00:19:14,834 --> 00:19:16,000
What's my next step?

199
00:19:16,033 --> 00:19:17,767
And then boom,
there's another murder.

200
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,266
So it just keeps piling up
and piling up.

201
00:19:21,300 --> 00:19:24,266
I'm thinking,
"Well, is this one person?

202
00:19:24,300 --> 00:19:28,066
Is this two people?
Is it more than that?
What's going on?"

203
00:19:28,100 --> 00:19:30,133
I don't know how much more
I can handle.

204
00:19:39,166 --> 00:19:45,033
[reporter]
Hill's beautiful and green
for walking, camping, fishing.

205
00:19:45,066 --> 00:19:47,100
Just coming someplace
where it's nice.

206
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:53,000
Those things remain
but there is a horrible
overlay to it all now,

207
00:19:53,033 --> 00:19:54,700
for this is also the area

208
00:19:54,734 --> 00:19:59,066
in which 13 murders
have been committed
in the past six weeks.

209
00:20:02,900 --> 00:20:06,300
At least the co-eds at the
University of Santa Cruz

210
00:20:06,333 --> 00:20:12,100
and at Cabrillo College
started to take the message
of don't hitchhike, seriously.

211
00:20:12,133 --> 00:20:13,967
And we did see a change.

212
00:20:14,700 --> 00:20:16,033
Do you hitchhike?

213
00:20:16,066 --> 00:20:19,667
Only if absolutely necessary.
And only with females now.

214
00:20:19,700 --> 00:20:21,967
-Why?
-Well, I'm afraid.

215
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:23,133
Why did you quit?

216
00:20:24,433 --> 00:20:26,800
Because of all
the weird things
that have been happening,

217
00:20:26,834 --> 00:20:31,467
with the rapes
and girls being chopped up
and things like that.

218
00:20:36,500 --> 00:20:39,634
[Mickey] We were working
six and seven days a week,

219
00:20:39,667 --> 00:20:43,400
12-14 hours a day,
trying to get a handle
on all this stuff.

220
00:20:44,734 --> 00:20:46,367
At this point,
we had no clues,

221
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:50,667
we went for quite a while
without any suspect,
whatsoever.

222
00:20:50,700 --> 00:20:53,433
The guy was...
He covered his tracks
really well.

223
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:01,800
[men speaking]

224
00:21:14,967 --> 00:21:16,734
My name is Isebill Gruhn.

225
00:21:16,767 --> 00:21:19,467
I joined the UCSC in 1960.

226
00:21:19,500 --> 00:21:23,567
I worked
with Clarnell Strandberg
at Stevenson College.

227
00:21:24,500 --> 00:21:26,100
I was a faculty member,

228
00:21:26,133 --> 00:21:30,266
she was the administrative
assistant to the provost.

229
00:21:30,300 --> 00:21:37,066
My impression of Clarnell
at first was that she was shy.

230
00:21:38,066 --> 00:21:40,400
Sometimes
when I passed her door

231
00:21:40,433 --> 00:21:42,200
and she didn't seem to be
doing anything,

232
00:21:42,233 --> 00:21:44,533
I would just greet her
and say, "How are you?"

233
00:21:44,567 --> 00:21:49,634
She was not very chatty,
she would say,
"Oh, things are not easy."

234
00:21:54,867 --> 00:22:01,033
One day, I saw a very tall,
young man pick her up
in a car...

235
00:22:02,233 --> 00:22:03,567
some kind of sedan.

236
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:08,233
Many of us those days had,
you know, Volkswagens
and small cars

237
00:22:08,266 --> 00:22:09,967
and it was the biggest car.

238
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,734
So I sort of said to her,
"Is this a relative of yours?"

239
00:22:15,767 --> 00:22:18,200
And she said,
"Oh, yes, that's my son."

240
00:22:23,567 --> 00:22:26,100
He was a tall, young man,

241
00:22:26,133 --> 00:22:31,634
who didn't dress or look
any different
than lots of student types.

242
00:22:33,500 --> 00:22:38,100
He didn't look suspicious,
he didn't look creepy...

243
00:22:38,133 --> 00:22:43,600
but I can tell you,
I never saw any kind
of interaction like hugging

244
00:22:43,634 --> 00:22:48,800
or somebody putting his arm
or her arm around the other,
or anything of the sort.

245
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,834
Do I think she was carrying
a burden?

246
00:22:55,967 --> 00:22:57,333
I think so.

247
00:23:01,767 --> 00:23:06,400
[man 2 speaking]

248
00:23:11,300 --> 00:23:15,567
Donald Lunde, as part of his
attempt to learn about Kemper,

249
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,734
also interviewed Kemper's
younger sister.

250
00:23:18,767 --> 00:23:22,500
He talked to Allyn
and got more from her

251
00:23:22,533 --> 00:23:26,400
in terms of corroboration
and perspective on the family.

252
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:33,867
[woman speaking]

253
00:23:55,166 --> 00:24:00,500
In a way, he's replicating
his father's relationship
with her.

254
00:24:00,533 --> 00:24:03,166
His father was already
a role model

255
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:07,934
of this is how you deal
with Clarnell,
you yell at her.

256
00:24:09,967 --> 00:24:14,533
[man 1 speaking]

257
00:24:51,266 --> 00:24:53,634
Kemper has now become
his father

258
00:24:53,667 --> 00:24:57,066
and has the same
acrimonious relationship

259
00:24:57,100 --> 00:24:59,166
with his mother
that his father had had.

260
00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:06,834
[man 2 and woman speaking]

261
00:25:24,700 --> 00:25:28,033
Kemper and Clarnell
were both raging alcoholics.

262
00:25:28,066 --> 00:25:32,333
They both drank a lot,
they were not afraid
to speak their mind.

263
00:25:35,667 --> 00:25:37,433
I think he said
one of their biggest fights

264
00:25:37,467 --> 00:25:40,867
was about whether he should
get his teeth cleaned.

265
00:25:40,900 --> 00:25:44,433
Benign issues
that were just, would explode.

266
00:25:48,734 --> 00:25:52,767
[man 1 speaking]

267
00:26:39,333 --> 00:26:42,266
[Jim] I would have to say
that the community
was on edge...

268
00:26:44,700 --> 00:26:46,433
and with no suspects...

269
00:26:48,066 --> 00:26:50,367
wanting the police to do more,

270
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:55,066
because they felt like
that they were maybe next
in line.

271
00:26:58,433 --> 00:27:02,100
Every agency
had a local watering hole,

272
00:27:02,133 --> 00:27:05,367
ours was The Jury Room,

273
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,500
and we're talking
about the cases
that we worked that day.

274
00:27:11,967 --> 00:27:15,567
[Mickey] And this is where
the police officers would go
after work to unwind,

275
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,834
I used to go there
and have a couple of drinks
on my way home.

276
00:27:19,266 --> 00:27:22,000
You would have officers from
Santa Cruz Police Department,

277
00:27:22,033 --> 00:27:23,867
maybe even the Highway Patrol,

278
00:27:23,900 --> 00:27:26,867
District Attorney's
Investigators,
that sort of thing.

279
00:27:29,567 --> 00:27:34,400
And Ed would come there
once in a while
and have a beer with us.

280
00:27:39,300 --> 00:27:44,700
[men speaking]

281
00:28:05,934 --> 00:28:08,634
He was kind of quiet...

282
00:28:08,667 --> 00:28:13,300
he would sit there
and not be a major part
of the conversation

283
00:28:13,333 --> 00:28:17,400
but he was just basically
listening and having his beer.

284
00:28:20,266 --> 00:28:25,634
[man 1 speaking]

285
00:28:35,967 --> 00:28:39,734
I couldn't go anywhere
without somebody asking me
about what is happening

286
00:28:39,767 --> 00:28:42,400
or, you know,
updates on the homicides

287
00:28:42,433 --> 00:28:45,066
or how close are we
to arresting somebody.

288
00:28:47,367 --> 00:28:49,667
We had no clue at that point,

289
00:28:49,700 --> 00:28:53,300
who this person might be,
we had no clues, whatsoever.

290
00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:01,166
[man 1 speaking]

291
00:29:40,634 --> 00:29:43,333
I first met Rosalind
and got to know her

292
00:29:43,367 --> 00:29:48,300
because we were both taking
women's studies classes
and we were both lesbians.

293
00:29:48,333 --> 00:29:51,634
And so, we were basically
in the same circle of people.

294
00:29:51,667 --> 00:29:55,734
And she was really good
at making pie.

295
00:29:55,767 --> 00:29:57,066
Everybody was always happy

296
00:29:57,100 --> 00:29:59,934
when she would come
to a potluck
with one of her pies.

297
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,967
If you could think of a,
you know, a feminist lesbian

298
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,033
who is All-American,
that was Ros.

299
00:30:07,066 --> 00:30:09,166
I assure you,
nobody stands very gently

300
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:10,467
and puts their hands
on your throat.

301
00:30:10,500 --> 00:30:12,300
They choke you
and they put you down
on that floor

302
00:30:12,333 --> 00:30:13,900
and you're down,
like this man.

303
00:30:17,567 --> 00:30:18,767
Here's Alice.

304
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,100
She was in the same
karate class as me.

305
00:30:22,133 --> 00:30:24,600
Neither one of us
was skillful,

306
00:30:24,634 --> 00:30:27,734
we were beginners,
but she was into it.

307
00:30:27,767 --> 00:30:30,500
She could kick well,
she was very supple,

308
00:30:30,533 --> 00:30:32,734
and it certainly
wasn't a self-defense

309
00:30:32,767 --> 00:30:36,300
because we felt
like there was no need,
we felt immortal.

310
00:30:40,333 --> 00:30:44,033
February is when they both
disappeared.

311
00:30:49,467 --> 00:30:54,533
[men speaking]

312
00:31:20,900 --> 00:31:22,934
He convinced her
to get him an A permit,

313
00:31:22,967 --> 00:31:26,667
an A permit
is a parking permit
up on UC Santa Cruz.

314
00:31:26,700 --> 00:31:29,634
He told her that he wanted
to go to the library.

315
00:31:29,667 --> 00:31:34,100
So anyone hitchhiking
would see this A permit
on his car and think,

316
00:31:34,133 --> 00:31:37,834
"Oh, this is another student,
this is a faculty member
or staff member."

317
00:31:37,867 --> 00:31:40,166
And would assume
that it was safe.

318
00:31:41,367 --> 00:31:43,333
Additionally, at that time,

319
00:31:43,367 --> 00:31:46,567
they had guards posted
at the entrance
of UC Santa Cruz,

320
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,600
if you had an A permit,
right on through.

321
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,634
The police
were not really proactive.

322
00:31:54,667 --> 00:31:57,800
Their initial reaction,
every time a woman
disappeared was,

323
00:31:57,834 --> 00:31:59,567
"Oh, you know,
girls of that age.

324
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,634
They frequently just go off.
They'll be back."

325
00:32:02,667 --> 00:32:05,767
These were not people
who were running away
from home.

326
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,166
Ros was not running away
from her housemate.

327
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,533
These were people
who were already living
an independent life,

328
00:32:12,567 --> 00:32:14,567
they had nothing
to run away from.

329
00:32:16,500 --> 00:32:19,533
[Terry] Their parents were
adamant that they would not
hitchhike...

330
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:21,834
they would not accept rides,

331
00:32:21,867 --> 00:32:24,400
they were last seen
on the campus,

332
00:32:24,433 --> 00:32:27,367
not hitchhiking
off the campus someplace.

333
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,166
So yes, we did get focused
on students

334
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:36,100
and faculty trying
to get a focus
on a possible motive.

335
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,433
And then one of the sort
of weird suspicions
that arose was,

336
00:32:42,467 --> 00:32:45,433
well, if they don't get
in cars with men,

337
00:32:45,467 --> 00:32:48,033
maybe they would get
in a car with a woman

338
00:32:48,066 --> 00:32:51,166
and that could be
some kind of lesbian thing.

339
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,700
At one point,
and this was
kind of interesting,

340
00:32:53,734 --> 00:32:55,767
they interviewed me

341
00:32:55,800 --> 00:33:00,100
and asked me questions
circling around
the lesbian community.

342
00:33:00,133 --> 00:33:04,433
And I was, you know,
basically freaked out.

343
00:33:06,133 --> 00:33:07,533
You follow me? Captain.

344
00:33:07,567 --> 00:33:09,400
More of the other boys are,
you'll need to spread out

345
00:33:09,433 --> 00:33:10,900
in there to cover
the flatland.

346
00:33:10,934 --> 00:33:12,367
Well, when the girls
disappeared,

347
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,834
there was a very large scale
search of the campus area

348
00:33:15,867 --> 00:33:18,266
with the last place
that the girls were seen.

349
00:33:18,300 --> 00:33:20,367
When you call me
just call the command post.

350
00:33:21,667 --> 00:33:25,266
[Luita] I participated
in an organized search,

351
00:33:25,300 --> 00:33:26,500
they separated us

352
00:33:26,533 --> 00:33:29,967
into groups according
to the difficulty
of the terrain.

353
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:31,967
We were going through
the Santa Cruz Mountains.

354
00:33:34,533 --> 00:33:35,900
And I was very fit,

355
00:33:35,934 --> 00:33:40,567
so I participated in the group
that went through
the rough terrain.

356
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,567
And they had us
in a grid
six feet apart about.

357
00:33:49,967 --> 00:33:53,867
And what I really remember
is that while I was walking,

358
00:33:53,900 --> 00:33:57,033
looking carefully
on either side of me,

359
00:33:57,066 --> 00:33:59,734
it was Ros' voice
that I was hearing within me.

360
00:34:04,166 --> 00:34:06,333
I could hear the tenor
of her voice

361
00:34:07,700 --> 00:34:11,800
and I think it was a way
of keeping her alive.

362
00:34:15,033 --> 00:34:17,834
But it became clearer
and clearer to me

363
00:34:17,867 --> 00:34:19,533
that I wasn't looking
for somebody

364
00:34:19,567 --> 00:34:22,066
who had broken her leg
or something like that...

365
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,333
we were looking for a body.

366
00:34:26,367 --> 00:34:30,600
[reporter]
Alice Lui and Rosalind Thorpe
were last seen February 5th.

367
00:34:30,634 --> 00:34:33,333
The bodies were discovered
east of Castro Valley,

368
00:34:33,367 --> 00:34:35,567
both girls
had been decapitated

369
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:37,934
and the hands from one body
had been cut off.

370
00:34:40,967 --> 00:34:45,000
We knew that it was Rosalind
and Al through their clothing

371
00:34:45,033 --> 00:34:47,400
and they had been shot
to death.

372
00:34:53,367 --> 00:34:55,734
Once that information
had come through,

373
00:34:55,767 --> 00:34:58,667
that spread instantly
throughout the community.

374
00:35:01,533 --> 00:35:04,834
Each one of us went
into ourselves

375
00:35:04,867 --> 00:35:07,734
with our individual reactions

376
00:35:07,767 --> 00:35:10,600
to that kind of level
of horror.

377
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,133
That level of...

378
00:35:14,567 --> 00:35:18,467
nightmare,
it was beyond our imagination.

379
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:26,900
At the same time,

380
00:35:26,934 --> 00:35:29,200
as the discovery
of the latest victims,

381
00:35:29,233 --> 00:35:31,600
we got probably
one of the biggest breaks

382
00:35:31,634 --> 00:35:33,266
that we've had
in any of these cases.

383
00:35:34,467 --> 00:35:36,900
There was a shooting
in the city of Santa Cruz.

384
00:35:38,533 --> 00:35:42,200
A description was put out
of a particular vehicle

385
00:35:42,233 --> 00:35:46,367
and that vehicle was stopped
a couple of miles away

386
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,166
and the person was arrested.

387
00:35:52,867 --> 00:35:55,266
[reporter]
A 25-year-old Felton area
resident

388
00:35:55,300 --> 00:35:57,367
has been charged
with multiple murders.

389
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,300
Authorities are operating
with the theory,

390
00:35:59,333 --> 00:36:01,600
the murders
are linked with drugs.

391
00:36:04,500 --> 00:36:08,667
A Herbert Mullin, age 25,
has previously been charged

392
00:36:08,700 --> 00:36:14,834
with the murder of members
of the Gianera family,
Francis family and Fred Perez.

393
00:36:18,500 --> 00:36:22,500
We started
to piece together his life.

394
00:36:23,634 --> 00:36:26,133
People knew him as Herbie.

395
00:36:26,166 --> 00:36:32,533
He took hallucinate drugs,
LSD, a lot of pot.

396
00:36:32,567 --> 00:36:35,400
[Tom] Herbert Mullin
was killing people
for crazy reasons.

397
00:36:35,433 --> 00:36:39,000
He had a strange theory
that by killing somebody

398
00:36:39,033 --> 00:36:43,300
then that would lessen
the chance of a killer
earthquake coming in.

399
00:36:44,567 --> 00:36:47,266
[Mickey]
He matched the description
of the person

400
00:36:47,300 --> 00:36:49,967
who was seen
at previous homicides,

401
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,233
which homicides, all of them,
we had no clue, whatsoever.

402
00:36:53,266 --> 00:36:55,066
We were kind of hoping
that he was the one

403
00:36:55,100 --> 00:36:57,600
that was responsible
for all of them.

404
00:36:57,634 --> 00:37:01,600
So we began to feel
a little bit better
about ourselves.

405
00:37:04,867 --> 00:37:06,867
When law enforcement
caught Mullin,

406
00:37:06,900 --> 00:37:10,467
the community
took a big sigh of relief,

407
00:37:10,500 --> 00:37:12,967
they thought this was over,
the nightmare was over.

408
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:15,367
The serial killer
had been caught.

409
00:37:16,100 --> 00:37:18,600
We know he's killed 10 people,

410
00:37:18,634 --> 00:37:22,400
so that's 10 of how many
other murders we have.

411
00:37:22,433 --> 00:37:26,233
Herbert Mullin
has been accused
in 10 of the 15 murders

412
00:37:26,266 --> 00:37:28,567
tied to this
south coast community.

413
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,033
However, Mullin's alleged
connection with death

414
00:37:31,066 --> 00:37:33,000
does not involve
the cutting up of the victims.

415
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:37,467
[Mickey] Once we had Mullin,

416
00:37:37,500 --> 00:37:39,834
we knew
that we had him for some
of the homicides,

417
00:37:39,867 --> 00:37:42,200
and probably a good number
of them,

418
00:37:42,233 --> 00:37:45,333
but that was only
the ones where the victims
had been shot,

419
00:37:45,367 --> 00:37:48,867
there still was the question
of the people
who had been dismembered.

420
00:37:52,567 --> 00:37:54,700
[Terry]
It is fairly clear to us,

421
00:37:54,734 --> 00:37:58,934
there's another person
out there killing people
in a different manner,

422
00:37:58,967 --> 00:38:00,266
for different reasons.

423
00:38:00,934 --> 00:38:02,734
And our job isn't done yet.

424
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:02,767
[man 1 speaking]

425
00:39:23,066 --> 00:39:27,700
April 1973, we were still
solving all of these
homicides,

426
00:39:27,734 --> 00:39:29,600
trying to put
everything together.

427
00:39:29,634 --> 00:39:34,533
And I got a notification
from our record section
of a dealer's record of sale,

428
00:39:34,567 --> 00:39:39,800
indicating that the handgun
had been bought in the name
of Edmund Emil Kemper III.

429
00:39:40,900 --> 00:39:43,634
It's a quite large gun,
that's a .44 magnum,

430
00:39:43,667 --> 00:39:46,367
the same gun
that Dirty Harry used
in all of those movies.

431
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,266
Like I say, it's a huge gun.

432
00:39:48,300 --> 00:39:49,467
[gunshot]

433
00:39:49,500 --> 00:39:51,133
So when that record
of sale came in,

434
00:39:51,166 --> 00:39:53,300
they matched it
to this particular person

435
00:39:53,333 --> 00:39:58,734
that showed that he had been
convicted of a double homicide
a few years earlier...

436
00:39:58,767 --> 00:40:01,433
and that his juvenile record
had been sealed.

437
00:40:02,300 --> 00:40:04,400
So that raises the question,

438
00:40:04,433 --> 00:40:08,066
does that mean
that his prior convictions
cannot be held against him?

439
00:40:09,767 --> 00:40:10,800
We're not sure of that,

440
00:40:10,834 --> 00:40:13,767
so we decided to confiscate
that handgun

441
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,667
until we could get
a judicial decision.

442
00:40:24,967 --> 00:40:30,066
This four plex on the left
is 609 A, B,

443
00:40:30,100 --> 00:40:34,467
and right there is 609-A,
where is the Kemper household.

444
00:40:37,533 --> 00:40:42,800
My partner and I go out
to his house,
this car pulls up...

445
00:40:44,300 --> 00:40:48,066
I told my partner, I said,
"Wait, let's go talk
to this guy."

446
00:40:48,100 --> 00:40:51,433
So I go over there and I said,
"Excuse me, can I talk to you
for a second?"

447
00:40:51,467 --> 00:40:53,300
And I identified myself.

448
00:40:53,333 --> 00:40:55,600
He said, "Sure."
And he got out of the car.

449
00:40:55,634 --> 00:40:58,834
And he got out of the car,
and he got out of the car.

450
00:40:58,867 --> 00:41:00,967
Because he was huge.

451
00:41:05,300 --> 00:41:07,367
We explained
the situation to him.

452
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,800
He was very cooperative,
very personable.

453
00:41:09,834 --> 00:41:11,967
He said, "It's in the trunk."

454
00:41:13,166 --> 00:41:16,100
As he pulls the keys out
to put them in the lock,

455
00:41:16,133 --> 00:41:20,467
my partner and I instinctively
separated to each side
of the car.

456
00:41:21,834 --> 00:41:26,567
He backed up,
I opened up the trunk,
and there was this gun.

457
00:41:28,033 --> 00:41:30,667
So I confiscated it,
gave him the receipt.

458
00:41:34,934 --> 00:41:38,033
He told me later
that had we not separated

459
00:41:38,066 --> 00:41:39,734
when he went
to unlock the trunk,

460
00:41:39,767 --> 00:41:42,333
he was thinking
about killing both of us.

461
00:41:47,500 --> 00:41:52,433
[man 1 speaking]